timeless vs everlasting Flashcards
timeless god
-classical theologians: augustine, boethesus, anselm, schleir macher
-gods outside time + not bound by it
-god creator of time
-eternal or atemporal
everlasting god
-god moves along same timeline that we do but never begins/ends
-past is past events r fixed n cannot be changed
-future unknown to us + god to an extnet, as not happened yet
-gods sempiternal
-swinburne
isiah 57
‘who inhabits eternity; whose name is holy’
nicholas wolterstroff
-timeless god isnt just from influnce of classical philosphy (platos unchanging world of forms) but view timless god has to be diff from human experince of life in phsyical world
-god=unique
‘the gwaning of time bites all’
timeless
boethius c477-525 ad
-god dont experince time but all time is present to god at same time
-god dont exist in time
-‘the whole simultaneous+perfect possesion of unedning life’
timeless
augustine
-god looking down + seeing all of a mountain or from a “ loofty peak”(boethius)
-he sees time in one instant
however, hes not w/us, less all loving as suffering, contradicts free will
-god transends notions of before+ after
-no ‘before’ god as time doesnt work in same way for god
timless- B support
aquinas
-use analogy to speak of god
-god isnt like us, have no words to descrivbe how god experinces ‘time’ we have to remmeber gods existence is v diff from r own
timeless
st anselm
-four dimensionalists
-2 main perspectives of time: presentism vs 4 dimensions
-humans=presentist life, we r constrained by space+tiem, god isnt
-‘yesterday’‘lastweek’ r subjective to person perceiving that moment j as space is relative to person
-god is eternal+unlimited by space/time
-god can see r free choices
wolterstroff
‘god is freed from the bandage of temporality’
-the grandfather paradox: another timeline created
anselm quotes
“That he is not in place or time, but all times and places in in him”
“Just as the present time contains all place and whatever is in any place, in the same way the eternal present encloses all time and whatever exists in any time.”
“that which in eternity cannot be changed, is changeable by free will at some time before it exists.”
anselm criticsm
He knows our future actions through apprehending them by being simultaneous with them in eternity. Some argue that this seems to conflict with omniscience.
HOWEVER, god =outside time, r future actions always exist. In eternity, God always learns of our future actions which always exist.
everlasting
swinburne
-God existed in a durationless non-metric time.
-for the future, God only knows the logically possible choices we could make, not which choice we will actually make.
- eternal God cant respond to people’s prayers, that would require acting in time. so everlasting god can
- -timeless god=impersonal+cant love
- god=mutable
el
swinburne quotes
-the cohernece of theism (1977)
-‘an omnipotent + perfectly good creator, god will seek to interact w/ his creators+ imparticular w/human persons capable of knowing him’
everlasting god supports gods….
-omnibenevolnce: active in human lives
-personal: answers prayers /miracles
everlasting god questions gods….
-omniscience: if god doesnt know future can good be all knowing
-immutable: if time/ humans change god can god still be perfect?
-perfect: is god limited by time