timeless vs everlasting

Question 1

timeless god

Answer 1

-classical theologians: augustine, boethesus, anselm, schleir macher
-gods outside time + not bound by it
-god creator of time
-eternal or atemporal

Question 2

everlasting god

Answer 2

-god moves along same timeline that we do but never begins/ends
-past is past events r fixed n cannot be changed
-future unknown to us + god to an extnet, as not happened yet
-gods sempiternal
-swinburne

Question 3

isiah 57

Answer 3

‘who inhabits eternity; whose name is holy’

Question 4

nicholas wolterstroff

Answer 4

-timeless god isnt just from influnce of classical philosphy (platos unchanging world of forms) but view timless god has to be diff from human experince of life in phsyical world
-god=unique
‘the gwaning of time bites all’

Question 5

timeless

boethius c477-525 ad

Answer 5

-god dont experince time but all time is present to god at same time
-god dont exist in time
-‘the whole simultaneous+perfect possesion of unedning life’

Question 6

timeless

augustine

Answer 6

-god looking down + seeing all of a mountain or from a “ loofty peak”(boethius)
-he sees time in one instant
however, hes not w/us, less all loving as suffering, contradicts free will
-god transends notions of before+ after
-no ‘before’ god as time doesnt work in same way for god

Question 7

timless- B support

aquinas

Answer 7

-use analogy to speak of god
-god isnt like us, have no words to descrivbe how god experinces ‘time’ we have to remmeber gods existence is v diff from r own

Question 8

timeless

st anselm

Answer 8

-four dimensionalists
-2 main perspectives of time: presentism vs 4 dimensions
-humans=presentist life, we r constrained by space+tiem, god isnt
-‘yesterday’‘lastweek’ r subjective to person perceiving that moment j as space is relative to person
-god is eternal+unlimited by space/time
-god can see r free choices

Question 9

wolterstroff

Answer 9

‘god is freed from the bandage of temporality’
-the grandfather paradox: another timeline created

Question 10

anselm quotes

Answer 10

“That he is not in place or time, but all times and places in in him”

“Just as the present time contains all place and whatever is in any place, in the same way the eternal present encloses all time and whatever exists in any time.”

“that which in eternity cannot be changed, is changeable by free will at some time before it exists.”

Question 11

anselm criticsm

Answer 11

He knows our future actions through apprehending them by being simultaneous with them in eternity. Some argue that this seems to conflict with omniscience.
HOWEVER, god =outside time, r future actions always exist. In eternity, God always learns of our future actions which always exist.

Question 12

everlasting

swinburne

Answer 12

-God existed in a durationless non-metric time.
-for the future, God only knows the logically possible choices we could make, not which choice we will actually make.
- eternal God cant respond to people’s prayers, that would require acting in time. so everlasting god can
- -timeless god=impersonal+cant love
- god=mutable

Question 13

el

swinburne quotes

Answer 13

-the cohernece of theism (1977)
-‘an omnipotent + perfectly good creator, god will seek to interact w/ his creators+ imparticular w/human persons capable of knowing him’

Question 14

everlasting god supports gods….

Answer 14

-omnibenevolnce: active in human lives
-personal: answers prayers /miracles

Question 15

everlasting god questions gods….

Answer 15

-omniscience: if god doesnt know future can good be all knowing
-immutable: if time/ humans change god can god still be perfect?
-perfect: is god limited by time

Question 16

timeless god supports gods…

Answer 16

-omniscience: hes all knowledge
-omnipotence: has all power to create + remain seperate from time
-perfect: no limits constrained
-immutable: not changed by time

Question 17

timeless god questions gods….

Answer 17

-omnibenevolence: not present in time
-personal: not answering prayers/miracles

Question 18

blaise pascal

Answer 18

-‘fire. god of abraham, god of isaac, god of jacob, not of the philosphers + the scholars. i will not forget thy word. amen’

Question 19

Biblical evidence for the everlasting view.

Answer 19

-E.g the 10 plagues of Egypt. God sent 1st plague, waited to c if the Pharaoh would let the Jews go. He didn’t, so God sent the 2nd plague, + so on until plague number 10.
-Wolterstorff argued that God being omniscient doesn’t include knowledge of the future.

Question 20

counter biblical evidence against everlasting

Answer 20

-Jesus also knows that Judas will betray him + peter would betray him 3 times before the cockerel crowed.
-So it seems that Jesus/God does know future human actions.
-also examples of old testament prophecies which suggest God knows the future.

Question 21

issue of God’s relationship with us including prayer

Answer 21

-Aquinas argues that Prayers aren’t responded to by God in real-time
- “We do not pray to change divine decree, but only to obtain what God has decided will be obtained through prayer”
- prayer is to make people feel psychologically closer to God